Pacific Association/USATF LDR Meeting Minutes
October 19, 2002
Meeting held at the Benbow State Park, day before Humboldt Half Marathon

Those present: Tyler Abbott, men's LDR chair, Hoy's Excelsior; Susan Beck,
women's LDR chair, Hoy's Excelsior; Hollis Lenderking, Ultra Subcommittee
co-chair, BAUR; Irene Herman, PA Membership Committee chair, Impalas;
Michelle Hannaford, Cross-Country Subcommittee co-chair, Impalas; Lloyd
Stephenson, Hoy's Excelsior; Mark Winitz, WVJS;  Dan Rhodes, Hoy's
Excelsior; Molly Sear, Iguanas; Marina Gelman, Iguanas; Phil Phythian,
Tamalpa (late); Ann Hardham, Tamalpa (late).

Meeting called to order at 3:18 p.m.

Minutes from the May 12, 2002 meeting following Zippy 5K were unanimously
approved, with one change.
Under Rules Changes, the third item is changed to read: Passed (2
abstentions): Road Grand Prix rule change to allow, at the discretion of
the LDR committee AND THE RACE DIRECTOR, non-proportional allocation of
race point values above 1.0 between individuals and teams (i.e. a race
with an overall scoring of 2.0 points may be allocated 1.0 individual and
3.0 team). [change in CAPS]


~~~ Ultra Subcommittee: Hollis Lenderking reported on the 50K national
championship hosted by Tamalpa on Aug. 24. He reported good national
participation, and said Tamalpa has been invited to bid again. The
subcommittee is using half of its travel funds to send Eric Bohn to the
100K national championship.

PASSED (unanimously): Proposed protocol for the selection of  Ultra Grand
Prix races. This protocol, submitted in writing, involved minimum
intervals between races, priority to 2000 Grand Prix races, date switching
protocols, and criteria for new bidders.

PASSED (unanimously): To refer to the Ultra Subcommittee a motion to
require Ultra Grand Prix race directors to submit to the PA results within
a certain time period and in a certain format.

Finally, Hollis explained certain changes to the ultra scoring system.

Scoring Task Force: Tyler presented the preliminary report of the Scoring
Task Force. An updated version of this report may be found at This report
is hereby incorporated into these minutes. The task force requested
comments and guidance on its proposals.

X-C Grand Prix Scoring Task Force did not present a report.

      As discussed at Zippy, West Valley Track Club (WVTC) appealed the new
majority resident team rule claiming that it violates USATF Regulation 7.
The majority resident rule prevented WVTC from scoring an open men's B
team at Houlihans. The PA Executive Board held that the majority resident
violates Regulation 7 and therefore the LDR chairs suspended the rule,
allowing that B team to score. One option the LDR Committee has is to
pursue the action on a national level. It was noted that Regulation 7 is
likely to be changed at the upcoming national convention in December,
although it may not affect this issue.

PASSED (unanimously): To postpone the vote on an additional set of
policies and recommendations about non-resident athletes proposed by the
Non-Resident Task Force (and contained in Appendix A to the May 12, 2002
minutes) to an upcoming meeting.

      Report postponed (no one from Empire or Buffalo Chips present). Event
will be hosted by Empire Runners and Buffalo Chips. Likely location,
Davis, likely date, end of January.

      Tyler Abbott reported that the LDR budget for 2003 was 
approved with two
exceptions. First, for the Road Grand Prix, we had asked for $20,000 and
got $15,000. But any additional money from LDR sources that comes in will
be used to increase the Grand Prix. Second, LDR did not get $1,000 for a
performance of the year award.

      We need four new representatives, two men and two men. The subject will
be discussed again at Clarksburg.


PASSED (unanimously). Divide road grand prix into short and long series
for all individual age groups starting in 2003. Does not apply to teams.
Individuals may drop one race from the short series but not from the long

PASSED (unanimously). Change cross country weighting so that (a) races are
generally offered 0.5 points for each extra $500 of prize money; and (b)
PA champs automatically receives one extra point (starts at double point,
then can receive additional half points at $500 each).

Vote scheduled for Clarksburg. Golden Valley Harriers has suggested change
to "drop down" rules. Their proposal is similar but not identical to the
old drop-down rules, in which a runner could drop down and score for a
younger age group team only if 1) their team could not field a full team
in their age group, or 2) the runner does not score for his/her age group
team because there are sufficient team runners ahead of them, or 3) the
team declared before the race that the runner would drop down.

Vote scheduled for Clarksburg. EBS/WVTC proposed the following change to
scoring for roads and X-C. Senior men's teams generally consist of four
runners. A three-man senior team may score only after all four-person
teams score.


Todd Kelly has announced he is resigning as Men's cross country chair at
the end of this year, and a new chair is needed.

2003 Grand Prix Schedule. Bid Coordinator Susan Beck presented the bids.

PASSED (unanimously): To limit the Heritage Oaks Bank 10K to be 3 points,
not 4 points as it had requested in its bid. The race will be allowed to
reduce its PA prize purse commensurately.

PASSED (unanimously): To approve all returning races that had bid up to
that time (including Christmas Relays). (Note: The Fifty-Plus 8K, Fleet
Feet Capitol Mile, and California International Marathon were the only
three races on the 2002 circuit that had not yet bid. The Fifty-Plus race
has told us they do not plan to bid, and the marathon is unlikely to do
so, mainly because of its proximity to the 2004 Olympic marathon trials.
The Mile wishes to bid but is looking for a new venue and date.) These
races were:

Jan. 12*      Cal 10      $2,600    1.0 pt.
March 23     Across the Bay 12K (formerly Houlihans)    $4,000  1.5 pts
April 13     Hewlett Packard 10K   (formerly Compaq)    $5,500    2.0 pts
April 27     News 46 5K          $2,600        1.0
May 11       Hoys Zippy 5K        $2,600        1.0
May 26       Pacific Sun 10K          $2,600        1.0
June 21      Shriners 8K    $2,600        1.0
Sept. 28       Heritage Oaks Bank 10K    Paso Robles    $8,000     3.0
October 19    Humboldt Half Marathon         $2,600        1.5
Nov. 9        Clarksburg 30K         $2,650        2.0
Dec. 14?      X-Mas Relays        San Francisco    $2,600        2.0 (team

*There was discussion earlier in the year with Cal 10 about changing its
date.The race ended up not changing it. The Committee discussed whether to
stipulate to the race that it will only accept a 2004 bid if the race is
moved to February, but decided not to, largely because of the new ten mile
race in March.

Three new races have submitted bids: NorCal 10 mile race in March;
Galena's Market 5K in Reno in June; and Jamba Juice 5K in September. The
Senior 8K did not bid. CIM has not submitted a bid yet, and may not bid
for 2003.

REJECTED (7 against, 2 abstain): To require that the Norcal 10 Miler move
to a Sunday (proposed on Saturday) as a condition of grand prix acceptance.

PASSED (unanimously): To accept the Norcal 10 Miler (Redding, $2600, 1.0
point), but only if it can accommodate a date of Saturday, March 8 and a
starting time of 10 a.m.

PASSED (unanimously): To postpone the vote on the approval of the Galena
5K to Clarksburg. We will ask the race director to change the date from
June 8 (Dipsea) to June 1. More information was also requested about the
race organization.

PASSED (unanimously): To postpone the vote on the approval of the Fleet
Feet Mile to Clarksburg, to consider other dates and locations for the

PASSED (unanimously): To accept the Jamba Juice 5K (San Francisco, $5500,
2.0 points).

PASSED (unanimously): To allow Christmas Relays to be double points with a
$2600 team-only purse. (It was noted that the reason it had been decreased
to single points was because of its proximity to California International
Marathon, which will probably not be on the 2003 Grand Prix).

The LDR committee will consider CIM at Clarksburg.

2003 Travel Funds

PASSED (unanimously): To give $250 travel award to winners of the PA
cross-country championships and of the PA cross-country grand prix, to
compete in the Winter Cross-Country Nationals in Houston in February.

PASSED (unanimously): To attempt to make members of the Farm Team eligible
for PA travel funds.

There were no appeals outstanding.

Meeting adjourned 5:30 p.m.